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Forum:2019-02-20 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Bored? Looking for something useful to do? There's plenty of wiki editing you can do. ---- So, is the sculpture on the back wall, but right over Dimo from our angle, a seventh-dimensional meanie? And is the one grey cloak with a red hood (in the academic regalia sense) on the other balcony important? He seems to be doing a :shrug: thing. That red definitely grabs your attention, like the little girl in Schindler's List. Bkharvey (talk) 05:50, February 20, 2019 (UTC) : I'd say it's more "gesturing towards the shroud in high emotion" than a shrug. As for what's under the shroud, I say it'll be a representation of Lucrezia/The Muse of Time, and the whole point of all this has been to lure Agatha here and remove or deactivate her collar. :: I think the arm pointing toward the stage belongs to the person to whom Snacky is talking, perhaps the big boss. We can't see Snacky's own left arm. Bkharvey (talk) 05:24, February 21, 2019 (UTC) : And Kaja admitted she and Phil screwed up the dialogue between Tarvek and the mini-castle a couple of pages back (re not knowing each other), and changed it. --Geoduck42 (talk) 06:04, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :: ... but they don't seem to have noticed that Seffie no longer has red hair. :-) And, to answer my first question myself, yes, it's a lot like . Bkharvey (talk) 06:06, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :: As for the whole point, the gray hood conspiracy predates Agatha coming to England. So, what's your reasoning? (You always do turn out to have reasons for your left-field-seeming ideas.) Bkharvey (talk) 06:09, February 20, 2019 (UTC) ::: Seffie: I'm betting that's not a mistake, and she's dyed her hair as a disguise. Cultists: I actually sort of hope I'm wrong with all this, but.. They have/had the message-bot from Sturmhalten, so they know about Lu-in-Agatha; this is going to be important somehow. I speculate Original!Lu used her time-travelling to set up an English cult worshipping her/The Muse of Time (at a minimum) decades ago, just like she did with the Geisters, to undermine and destroy Albia's kingdom from within. It's probably also going to turn out she was behind the group who caused England to start sinking; if so, the gray hoods are that group's descendants or inheritors. Less likely but still possible: Rakethorn's a lifelong cult-member, and will Fulfill His Destiny by dramatically backstabbing Agatha and doing away with the collar. --Geoduck42 (talk) 08:52, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :::: Seffie: Oh, maybe, but if so, Jeanne saw through it instantly. (And, as a good quasi-pirate, should not then have called out Seffie's name to clue in the rest of the crowd.) Lu: Her turning up once at (more or less) the beginning of time was an interesting plot wrinkle. But if everything that happens turns out to be something she set up in the dim past, I think it'll get boring quickly -- and depressing, because how can the good guys ever possibly win if she is always establishing the rules of play? (And yes, I remember Bang .) I'm hoping that they really do conjure up that 7th dimensional person and conduct a conversation somehow. Oh -- maybe through the intervention of the Castle somehow? Bkharvey (talk) 09:04, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :::: Sorry, my fingers are faster than my brain. I meant to say, if this is all about Lucrezia, is Tobber/Bunstable's work just a McGuffin? Bkharvey (talk) 09:12, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :::: For Jeanne recognziing Seffie, she also heard her voice. Not so sure about the depths of Lucrezia's plots into England, but it is indeed interesting that she was willing to gamble going there when she was controlling Agatha's body--if anybody could have figured out what was going on, it was Albia. So she must have be confident to have some sort of Ace there. 'Black' Victor Cachat (talk) 14:34, February 20, 2019 (UTC) : I think the red-clothed guy on the other balcony is just talking to his friend, but at first view I thought he saw Agatha and company. Argadi (talk) 12:00, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :The red haired guy is Lord Snackleford - note the shortened hair cut. --Fred1740 (talk) 15:38, February 20, 2019 (UTC) Two things: 1. What is Wooster looking at up there? 2. These people down there may be bad guys, but they're sparks, and they apparently have electric arc lights. So what's with the torches? Torches are what the mundanes carry, along with pitchforks, when they come to get the scientists on the hill. It's a weird vibe. Bkharvey (talk) 09:31, February 20, 2019 (UTC) : They're members of a cult about to summon up some sort of extradimensional horror, and you're saying you're getting weird vibes? --Geoduck42 (talk) 10:16, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :: I didn't answer this before since it was clearly a rhetorical question, but you're thinking from a real-world perspective; what I meant is that in GG-world, sparks wanting to summon a monster is to be expected, whereas them carrying old-fashioned, pre-science torches is weird. (But also, Bunstable told us that the other sparks were afraid of Tobber because he might summon a monster. The combination of that with what we're seeing now needs explaining.) Bkharvey (talk) 23:18, February 21, 2019 (UTC) ::: Eh. It seems likely Bunstable was not a Gray Hood, and anything that a GH says to an outsider about their feelings and motives should be taken with an enormous grain of salt. --Geoduck42 (talk) 02:18, February 22, 2019 (UTC) : 1. A good (that is, paranoid) spy looks everywhere. Any shadow could hide something useful or dangerous. 2. Tradition. The old rules for the ceremony say torches, so they still use torches. Argadi (talk) 12:00, February 20, 2019 (UTC) Seeing them surreptitiously observe (from a high perch in a giant, vaulted, temple room hidden in the station) the proceedings below of colleagues who are secretly cultists was really ringing a bell for me. All praise to the Winslow! —Undomelin ✉ 11:29, February 20, 2019 (UTC) Note the statue in the alcove on the extreme left. It seemed to be a sort of monster, or symbol representing a monster, of a form which only a diseased fancy could conceive. If I say that my somewhat extravagant imagination yielded simultaneous pictures of an octopus, a dragon, and a human caricature, I shall not be unfaithful to the spirit of the thing. A pulpy, tentacled head surmounted a grotesque and scaly body with rudimentary wings; but it was the general outline of the whole which made it most shockingly frightful.~~H.P.Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu Also, consider the lights! The ones upon the ceiling. They look like the ones in the Crypt, at Castle Heterodyne! Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:52, February 20, 2019 (UTC) Note the statue in the alcove on the right, behind Dimo. Looks very familiar. --Fred1740 (talk) 15:38, February 20, 2019 (UTC) With Agatha so high up, how it she going to fix the machine when it breaks? (Following in the tradition of her ancestor who let the enemy into the town to get a better look at the machines.) Argadi (talk) 12:00, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :Fix? Don't you mean Break? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 16:53, February 20, 2019 (UTC) :: No, she to see what they are doing, which requires a working machine. And we've seen sparks over and over again being dangerously curious about machines (Agatha staring into Gil's device early in the story, the ancestor I mentioned above) and being unable to avoid fixing machines (Agatha freeing the Muse of Time). Argadi (talk) 00:56, February 21, 2019 (UTC) This isn't something they do every month; heretofore they've been deterred from trying by fear of Tobber. That's why he had to die. And yet, there's that statue; someone knows what the Meanie looks like. I guess that's evidence that this theater was built by a time traveler. That doesn't have to mean Lucrezia, but it's plausible. Bkharvey (talk) 17:05, February 20, 2019 (UTC) I believe that Seffie's new hair color is a mistake. Jeanne Hawkins immediately recognized her and called her by name. If she immediately realized that Seffie was in disguise, then she shouldn't have said Seffie's name (as BKHarvey said). But, if she recognized Seffie despite the different hair color (as she obviously did if Seffie's hair is not a mistake) and assumed Seffie was paying her a social call (which she seems to have done), she should have made a comment about the new hair color; it would be only natural. I have seen the Foglio's and Cheyenne make worse mistakes than this. -- William Ansley (talk) 04:25, February 21, 2019 (UTC) Re: the revised dialog two pages back: I'm afraid it still doesn't fit well with the past history. In Paris, Tarvek introduced himself as "the Lady Heterodyne's future consort" and the Castle replied "Oh, you're the other one." So it knows too much about the relationship between Tarvek and Agatha for it to plausibly tell Higgs to kill Tarvek. I know, they need that to set up the joke, but it just doesn't work for me. Re: hair color: Do you think Cheyenne thought it was Agatha? My guess is he colors the page without the speech balloons in place. Bkharvey (talk) 05:20, February 21, 2019 (UTC) The creature over Dimo’s head definitely appears to be the same giant creature that is headed to Mechanicsburg with ETA of 24 months. So someone has seen the creature before and it made enough of an impression on them that they carved the image as part of the temple. If the temple is ancient, then the beastie has been known to the ancients, not shocking given that the Nth dimensional creature may transcend time. So questions naturally follow:9thGeneral (talk) 18:19, February 21, 2019 (UTC) #Who saw this creature back in the mists of ancient time and built a temple to revere it? Did someone else enter the Nth dimension or did the creature appear on earth through a time window? #If the temple predates Albia, and prompted by Haldeman’s Accidental Time Machine, are the Mirrors actually projections into the GG world of the Nth dimensional being’s world? Could it have been them or the Dreen that accidentally or intentionally put them there and then made them go black once Lucrezia abused them? #Speaking of Dreen, the wild Dreen that came to Gil and Bang is clearly trying to manipulate events and individuals within the GG dimensions. Manipulation would not be necessary if the desired outcome was pure destruction. Similarly, some Dreen are cooperating with Wulfenbach so presumably the Baron could communicate with them. As pointed out above, he knows about windows in time. Could the Baron’s use of the supposedly dead mirror been the result of his work with the Dreen or vice versa? #If the eyeball beast in alcove #4 (over Dimo) is real, what are the other creatures referred in the altar? Second from the left could be the unstable ants. #1 looks Cthulu-esque. Does anyone recognize #3 or the edges of #5? Re #2: Albia seems to suggest that Lucrezia killed the mirrors (I would guess to keep the queens from warning each other about her), but she says that Sianna killed the last of them to prevent Lucrezia from killing Albia. Bkharvey (talk) 19:07, February 21, 2019 (UTC) : Albia certainly says that Sianna had sealed the mirror and that Lucrezia had come through easily anyway. "And with no warning" implying that was unusual. About who actually made them go dark is a little more vague, but Lucrezia is implied. In that second page you referenced, Gil refers to his father's notes on time manipulation. This, #3 above and of course the Take-Five bomb clearly indicate that Klaus knows a great deal about time manipulation himself. Is Klaus-in-Gil a personality overlay only or does it have memories that Gil himself does not have? Obviously, the L-in-Agatha has detailed memories that are Lucrezia's. If the reason Agatha knew how to release the Muse was because the Muse was a future version of Lurcrezia that ended up being the version that got installed by the Geisters, then we are pretty deep into causal loops. 9thGeneral (talk) 22:54, February 21, 2019 (UTC) :: It's a minor point, since Lucrezia is pretty clearly responsible for the earlier failures, but in Albia's story about the meeting, Lu is trying to pursue her through a mirror link but fails because Sianna killed her mirror. Different from her earlier blocking of the mirror, which didn't stop Lu. Bkharvey (talk) 23:18, February 21, 2019 (UTC) ::: Yup, point taken. A conclusion is that various humans can affect the behavior of the mirror network, closing them, co-opting the network, shutting it down, reviving it, etc. :::: ... Humans including Klaus but not Albia or Zantabraxus. Strange. Bkharvey (talk) 03:44, February 22, 2019 (UTC)